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Friday, August 05, 2011

This is what happens when you join the neo-cons

Ayaan Hirsi Ali says Muslim women who want to keep their belief in god should become Christian if they cannot leave religion altogether. How thoughtful of her.

That’s what happens when you mix with neo-cons and why you must keep as far away from them as possible. Mix with them too long and you start talking and thinking like them. They after all want to defend Christianity from that 'foreign' Islam and don't really care a whit about women and their rights.

As an atheist herself, Ayaan must know full well that all religions are misogynist. How can one advocate for others what one does not want for oneself?

Also as I have said a million times before, Christianity only seems tamer because it has been dealt with by an enlightenment. To the degree it has been weakened – that is the degree to which people and women have more freedoms and rights. It’s not because of Christianity but because of the resistance against it.

A minimum precondition to safeguard women’s rights is secularism - the separation of religion from state, educational system and judicial system. But then I guess Ayaan can’t really say that because that would be like advocating Marxism amongst her friends.

Here’s the interview:

12 comments:

Ariel said...

From the post: 'Also as I have said a million times before, Christianity only seems tamer because it has been dealt with by an enlightenment. To the degree it has been weakened – that is the degree to which people and women have more freedoms and rights. It’s not because of Christianity but because of the resistance against it.'

Key idea and very important to understand, it applies to a wide range of religious/ideological movements. When weak are kind, when powerful arrogance and violence towards the external groups increases.

Baal said...

A practical solution. I don't mind it. I do not mind Christian nations. Even the States has Vermont which is as religious as Switzerland and Mississipi which is as religious as Tehran (Pew Research). For many reasons, cognitive dissonance considered, some people can not let go of a religion overnight. And socially, the disdain and fear from atheism is orders of magnitude heavier than from Christianity.

I still believe atheists should make a strong stand against all religions. I still do not think Ayaan should give a free pass with her advice. Perhaps, use more prohibitive language like: "If you can not let go of X then adopt Y, but know that they are all stories and they are all misogyny"

ma111902 said...

Ayaan Hirsi Ali really should open her eyes in her new found Country.

Many American people do not believe in Christianity. Many of them recognise it for the old political movement it really is, but dare not say anything for fear of losing their jobs, being persecuted and yes, threatened with death.

That's gold old Christianity operating as normal in many US states.

If Ayaan is committed to human individual welfare then she has to choose the human individual - over all these old political belief systems.

Martyn

Atheist MC said...

I think you are being unfair to Ayaan. She is not abrogating her atheism but offering an alternative to people, many of whom she has been personally in contact with that helps them exit fundamentalist Islam. I am absolutely sure she is aware that Christianity is also a misogynistic religion, and I guess if an ex muslim woman was to find herself in the evangelical xian right, she may wonder what she had gained from the move. But Ayaan's logic is sound given the premise that these women are not comfortable with atheism.

TheDudeDiogenes said...

It's patronizing of Ayaan to think that others couldn't be convinced to give up religion as she herself was. Ugh. Why isn't she working for a skeptical and or liberal/progressive political organization?

Danette said...

I get frustrated with Sam Harris too for suggesting that Christianity is more peaceful than Islam. It's violence is institutionalized (i.e. the U.S. military) but if you walk into any Southern Baptist Church you hear worship of nationalism and soldiers are deified.

Adrian C said...

Thing is though, I suspect that AHA is probably right (and you, sadly, wrong) about the Islamist direction the Arab Spring is taking.

Nate said...

Fully agree with you Maryam. Has Ayaan gone nuts? Christianity was once worse than Islam, as you said it only seems tamer because of the resistance against it.

I mean why shouldn't she have simply suggested deism then? You don't want more creationist crap or pro-life bollocks either. Of course, it's better than beheading or chopping hands, but what's the need for such a dichotomy at all?

Cynical Bloke said...

I have written a reply to this: http://cynicalbloke.blogspot.com/2011/08/mixed-feelings-on-ayaan-hirsi-alis.html

Graham said...

Is it accurate to conflate neo-cons and christians?

Maryam Namazie said...

I mention neocons because Ayaan works for a neocon think tank right now.Not because I think all Christians are neocon. Though calling people to become Christians during the fight against an Islamic inquisition in definitely in aid of the rightwing worldview that sees this as a clash of civilisations and a fight between Christianity and Islam...

Anonymous said...

I don't quite think you're being fair. She isn't exactly advocating Christianity; she even points out on a couple occasions in the video that it can be any other religion being converted to. Besides, you definitely cannot make the claim that Christianity today is as misogynistic as Islam today.